sometime and ask him. anyway, if it's way too early it is "morning joe." stick around, though, we have a lot to cover. the rest of the day on msnbc, but right now we go to steve kornacki. and good morning. i'm steve kornacki and we are live here at stops coffee rosters in columbus, ohio. this is the capital city of ohio. we are very close to the ohio state university, home of the buckeyes and we are going to be talking a lot about this state, this winner take all state, in next tuesday's republican primary over the next hour we are also going to be turning some attention down south to the sunshine state of florida. that's where many of the republican candidates are today

and for that crucial debate tonight ahead of the next round of super tuesday voting. >> we are going to have a big -- i think we're going to be a fantastic week. >> at this point our campaign has beaten donald trump not once, not twice, not three times, but eight separate times. >> anyone tells you, oh, marco rubio is getting out you tell them you heard it from me, they are lying to you. >> you knock them out. if you knock him out nothing can happen. >> you want to go for a knockout. >> i'd rather go for a knockout. >> when the opposition union nice donald loses. >> everybody that has hit me has gone down. >> it is true we haven't done as well in some of those states as we wanted to but it's going to come down to florida for me. >> the only guy who can beat donald trump is ted cruz. >> i don't have any steaks to sell. >> i don't know whether you noticed or not but i refuse to get down in the mud to be elected president of the united states. okay? >> do you pledge that on tuesday you will go and we will make america great again and you will vote for donald trump?

okay? >> that is down in florida, again, tonight where that debate will be held, but here in ohio we always knew the stakes were going to be big in this republican primary and those stakes have gotten bigger this week. a new poll jund scoring what we already know. marco rubio he is in deep trouble in florida, that's his home state, that is must win for him. he is down 23 points, better than two to one in a new poll in that state, and because of that, because marco rubio is in such trouble in florida republicans who do not want donald trump to be their party's nominee for president then we have no choice but to pull even harder for john kasich right here in ohio in kasich's home state. and the good news for those folks, there is another new poll here in ohio, it has john kasich on top. he leads trump by five points in the buckeye state, 34 to 29%. and why that is such a big deal, well, the reason is simple, if

donald trump wins florida, if he beats marco rubio there and that's what every poll is pointing to right now, donald trump is going to pick up every single delegate from florida, all 99 of them. that would be as donald trump likes to say, it would be huge for him. it would also be devastated for marco rubio and bad news for every republican who wants to keep trump from hitting that magic delegate number and from clinching the nomination during the primary season. and if he could then add on top of that, on top of florida, ohio, ohio another winner take all state, the winner walking away with all 66 delegates. well, if donald trump can do that it really might be too late for anyone to stop him. so whether you are a republican who likes donald trump or you are a republican who can't stand him, next tuesday's primary here in ohio is absolutely huge. and it is just as big for democrats, too. bernie sanders just brought in underdog campaign back to life with that stunning upset in

michigan, but to truly have a chance of knocking off hillary clinton and winning the democratic nomination he is going to need to follow that up in a big way. >> we have come a long way in ten months. >> i've won some, i've lost some. >> one of the differences between the secretary and i is i'm not quite so aggressive with regard to regime change. >> i am not a natural politician in case you haven't noticed like my husband or president obama. >> what secretary clinton just said is absolutely right, i think i said it many months before she said t but thanks for -- >> if you got indicted would you withdraw. >> for goodness sake. that is not going to happen. i'm not even answering that question. >> and all of that brings us back here to ohio. a big state, a swing state, a rust belt state, another state with a lot of delegates and the state where the latest poll has sanders closing the gap now, trailing hillary clinton by

single digits. to be clear hillary clinton remains the prohibitive favorite to win the democratic nomination, but if sanders can follow up michigan with another win here this tuesday, then he just might start to change that. much more on the democrats and their fight in a minute. we will start, though, on the republican side. peter alexander and hallie jackson are in coral gables, florida, that's the site of tonight's debate, gabe gutierrez is in miami and peter alexander, we will start with you. donald trump and controversy, they are hardly strangers in this campaign, but it looks like on the subject of islam he's causing even more of a stir today. >> reporter: yeah, that's exactly right. obviously controversy has fueled a lot of donald trump's success over the course of this campaign, no stranger to it as you noted and the latest example came last night during a conversation with cnn where he was asked about the war with isis and about islam specifically. take a listen to donald trump's

comments. >> do you think islam is at war with the west? >> i think islam hates us. there's something -- there's something there that there is a tremendous hatred there. there is a tremendous hatred we have to get to the bottom of it and we have to be very vigilant, we have to be very careful and we can't allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the united states. >> i guess -- >> and of people that are not muslim. >> reporter: so that is the latest controversy right now, donald trump certainly will be asked about it on the debate stage tonight. so much of the focus here obviously is on marco rubio and whether we are seeing the final five days of his campaign. this is a state of course that rubio needs to win, he has said as much, it's his home state as the senator in this state but he is now facing new attacks from donald trump himself now on the air with two new ads that are out today, these ads focused on rubio and an effort in donald trump's own words to try to knock out the other candidates. for donald trump, of course,

ohio and florida are huge prizes, winner take all states, a combined 165 delegates between them right now and recent polls show that john kasich is actually leading, a new fox news poll shows kasich with a lead over trump in ohio, but here in florida trump is doubling up the competition more than two to one over marco rubio. that's how things stand at this time as we head into conceivably what could be the last debate with four candidates on stage. back to you. >> hard to believe there were almost 20 candidates in this race when it all started, now down to four. peter alexander thanks for that. hallie jackson has been covering the cruz campaign, we bring her in now. hallie, ted cruz trying to consolidate that anyone but trump, that anti-trump wing of the republican party. >> yeah. >> we don't know exactly how big it is, but he did get an endorsement yesterday. >> reporter: carly fiorina, steve, and he picked up another one from influential conservative radio host mark

levine. people who can get out there and be surrogates on his behalf on the campaign trail. the fiorina endorsement interesting not necessarily because she has, for example, so much support, she was polling fairly low before she got out of the race but because she has the ability as she has shown on debate stages in the past to not only go after donald trump but also hillary clinton. here is what she had to say when she endorsed cruz yesterday. >> we need someone who isn't afraid to take on the vested interests and ted cruz is that guy. here is the thing about donald trump, he and hillary clinton are two sides of the same coin. donald trump is the system that needs to be reformed. hillary clinton is the system that she claims she will reform. >> reporter: so, steve, i hate to tell you that i lied to you, that was actually carly fiorina from this morning on "morning joe," my apologies. she appeared on the program to talk about her support for ted cruz and what that means moving forward. you talk about cruz wanting to

coalesce that anti-trump vote, that anybody but trump vote, tonight is an opportunity to show that he can be the person on stage to do that. watch for cruz to essentially do what he has been doing these last couple debates which is if it ain't broke don't fix it. focus on policy, these attack lines that donald trump is too liberal, using trump's own words against him, that is something ted cruz has consistently done. his challenge when it comes to being here in florida is that there is not necessarily a natural market for him to break through. you have donald trump to tends to be strong in the panhandle, florida analysts say marco rubio tends to be strong in south florida where we are. where does ted cruz break through in this state? his campaign looking to essentially knock rubio out and set up that two-man race. will that happen? who knows? as you point out we have come a long way in this past few months. now just four people, it's kind of amazing when you think about it. >> all right. hallie jackson covering the cruz campaign.

thanks for that. >> now we will bring in gabe gutierrez. he has been on the marco rubio beat, he joins us from miami. gabe, we heard peter and hallie set it up there a little bit. look, the polling news out of florida is grim for marco rubio. we have seen the polls be wrong in the democratic race in a big way this week so we can't say it's over in florida yet, but the signs are not looking good for marco rubio in his must win home state. >> reporter: certainly not looking good at all, steve. as you mentioned the latest polls have him down 20 points, fox news poll has him down 23 points against donald trump. certainly a very steep hill for marco rubio to climb here in his home state but his campaign says they are still committed to winning florida, they are hearing these calls to drop out of the race they say it's not going to happen. marco rubio said as much in his town hall with chuck todd yesterday. now, his crowds, the campaign has also is faced criticism for perhaps not having enough

infrastructure here in florida, waiting too long to gather up resources here. yesterday in high leah his crowd was a few hundred people in a stadium that seats several thousand. there is no doubt that rubio is facing a very tough time here in florida. now, yesterday in his town hall with chuck he had a very revealing answer as to regarding something that many people think nights have been the undoing of his campaign, that choice to go really negative against donald trump and start hurling personal insults. here is what he said, what was his reaction to that in his conversation with chuck. take a listen. >> in terms of things that have to do with personal stuff, yeah, at the end of the day it's not something i'm entirely proud of. my kids were embarrassed by it and i -- you know, if i had to do it again i wouldn't, but not on the other charges, not on the other things. >> reporter: rubio for the first time saying that he regretted the decision to attack donald trump on a personal level,

before that he had denied saying he had no regrets, but expect marco rubio tonight to really go after donald trump in this debate in terms of policy he really needs to strike some blows in order to gain any momentum here against the steep hill to climb more marco rubio to his home state. >> all right. it is now or never for marco rubio. gabe gutierrez in miami, thank you for that. we're going to talk to some people from columbus in just a second, but first we have live pictures right now we're showing you, in the the white house, that is of course president obama on the right, the man standing to his right, that is justin trudeau, the canadian prime minister, his wife there with him as well, i don't think you can see her in the shot. they are making a visit, a formal visit to canadian prime minister to washington, to the white house, that's the canadian prime minister and president obama right now just outside the white house. you will be hearing much more throughout the day on his visit from justin trudeau to the united states. now to reset things here in

ohio, in columbus, ohio, let me bring in jim single, he is a political reporter from the columbus dispatch and jackie kucinich. she is an ohio native, a columbus native so we are in her hometown. >> i'm jealous. >> well, jim, let me start with you. this is your paper this morning, put this up on the screen, the columbus dispatch the head line satisfied kasich swimming upstream. he has to win next week to keep his campaign alive. a lot of republicans are cheering with him because they say the only way to stop trump is to get kasich to win in ohio. he is leading in the poll but it is close. what is he facing in his home state next tuesday? >> john kasich won reelection in 2013 by 31 points, he has an over 60% approval rate in the state. if you ask many analysts will he

said people say yes. >> so why is it close? >> this is an election year we have never seen before. donald trump is very close and there's two other polls that were receipts leased yesterday that had trump up by 6 points. you wouldn't think that kasich would be struggling right now but he is -- and we've talked to some folks at some of these rallies that trump has had and they generally say it's not that we dislike kasich we just like trump more. clearly some of trump's messages, you know, this is -- we have an industrial heritage in this state and so some of his messages about trade, some of his messages about stopping these manufacturing companies from taking their jobs overseas, some of these messages about stopping immigrants, those messages are resonating somewhat in ohio and are causing this to be a much closer race than you would otherwise think it should be. >> jackie, nationally we set this up a little bit but we all know marco rubio this is it in florida, he's got to win florida, it is not looking good. i think my sense is a lot of republicans nationally are

starting to think of this thing past next tuesday and say you have cruz there, you have trump and if kasich wins ohio they're starting to to think what that three-way race might look like. >> you have to imagine that the establishment republicans could start giving kasich another look. he does have the benefit of having -- if you are an establishment republican, having served in congress, being a governor he is the prototype of an establishment candidate especially since marco rubio seems to have fallen by the wayside. people in d.c. they don't like ted cruz, they certainly don't like donald trump. so you have to wonder how much money and how much influence in terms of endorsements are going to end up in kasich's lap if marco rubio does falter which it looks like he's going to. >> yeah, we played there as well we just heard marco rubio a little bit in that town hall he did with chuck todd last night and it sounds like he kind of regrets that strategy he had a week or two ago where he was going after trump to personally, trying to do the insult comedy act. trump responded to that as well,

he talked about that strategy rubio used in an interview last night. let's hear what trump had to say. >> i think he tried to be don rickless, frankly. you know, he wanted to be don rickles and thes not don rickles. maybe for me it's more natural. it wasn't natural for him and took him off the his game. amazing, i have never seen anything like it. he wasn't from doing pretty good to now he is at the bottom of the pack. >> you know, jackie, i'm curious to get your take on this. i think that's a bad sign for any campaign or for any candidate when you're marco rubio and you decide to go down that road a couple weeks ago, you're putting these -- i remember his campaign is putting these clips online, we're watching donald trump blow for blow, now he is the one basically saying, yeah, maybe i shouldn't have done that and trump gets to get on his high horse and say, see, the guy doesn't know any better. >> trump that has been a master at bringing some of these candidates that tried to be above it all down to his level. look at what happened to jeb

bush, initially jeb bush was trying to ignore donald trump, that didn't work so he tried to go after him and that didn't work. when marco rubio sort of changed his tactics and muddied his brand it was a risk and it didn't pay off. we've seen that over and over again when it comes to donald trump in this campaign. >> so, jim, back here in ohio tell us more about kasich in his role in this race because it seems to me he has had a little bit of an uptick lately, one thing people trace that to is the debate a little more than a week ago, we will see what happens tonight. you had rubio going hard after trump, you had cruz going hard after trump, trump coming hard after both of them and kasich off to the side doing his only thing and some people are wondering is there a segment of the republican party starting to resonate, john kasich is intentionally standing off to the side and saying take another look at me. >> that's clearly what he is banking on. he has found his niche in this campaign as he says it a lot himself the adult in the room. you know, to me it's kind of

interesting that, you know, he has managed to position himself as the calm, moderate candidate in this race which says a lot about this race because anyone who knows john kasich knows he is neither calm more moderate. >> that's an interesting thing nationally. when you say he is not calm i have heard that from other people. >> right. >> tell me about that a little bit. >> if you remember when he first got in the race there were actually some stories about is kasich -- is he too prickly, is he too mean to be president. you talk to -- you go -- i've talked to staff of legislative leaders in ohio and when he comes in the room it's like a tornado. he is very energetic, very active. he is not -- he doesn't like to sit back and be calm and in terms of being moderate he is just -- he is not. i mean, he has been very conservative on issues like abortion, he has been -- he has cut a lot of taxes in ohio. so to argue he is a moderate -- now, he has done some things like expand medicaid and he talks about wanting to help the

mentally ill, wanting to help the drug addiction. he has a compassionate conservatively to him but he is staking himself out in this race. >> people have put the theory out that he has not gone after donald trump, there are all sorts of strategic reasons for that, but one theory is he's looking ahead and saying at the end of this maybe he wants to be trump vp. the kasich that you see and know in this state could you see that happening? >> i would be surprised to be honest. i'm not saying i would be surprised if kasich would not join any ticket. i'd be surprised that he would join trump's ticket. i feel like the two of them are very far apart on a lot of issues and trump goes about things in a way that john kasich does not like. he has a tone and attitude that john kasich i think would have a hard time standing rind him and agreeing with and, you know, john kasich i just don't think would be an ideal choice or would want necessarily to be a vice president for donald trump. >> that's a lot of personality for one ticket.

>> yes, it certainly -- and it sounds like we might start to see more of that kasich personality that jim is talk being if he gets that win next week and gets that spotlight back. jackie is sticking around, we will dissect that democratic debate with you in just a little bit. >> up next we will have much more on that sanders/clinton race the morning after a debate between the two of them in florida last night. hillary clinton, bernie sanders still focused on that state, but hillary clinton also planning two stops in two other key tuesday battle grounds. we will get the latest from our own kristen welker. that is straight ahead. ♪ in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in buffalo, where the largest solar gigafactory in the western hemisphere will soon energize the world. and in syracuse, where imagination is in production.

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let me be very clear. i have introduced -- >> excuse me.

excuse me. >> did you ask me to speak? did you ask me? you asked me to speak, did you not? madam secretary, when he asks me to speak -- >> and that was just one of several tense exchanges in last night's democratic debate down in miami. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are fighting for the crucial latino vote in florida and beyond and last night they clashed particularly over the subject of immigration, also getting into it on the environment and healthcare and it is today going to be a busy day on the campaign trail for both of them. hillary clinton has three events in three states, she's looking to pro tell her to the democratic nomination including illinois, the state in which she was born, also florida and north carolina. bernie sanders spending his entire day down in florida where the polls show him lagging far behind. let's get the latest from the sunshine state. nbc's chrissen welker is in miami. good morning.

>> reporter: good morning. secretary clinton and senator sanders will spend the day barn storming in some of those states that will vote next tuesday. after sanders' spry win in michigan, states like ohio and illinois are looking a lot more competitive but the biggest prize is right here, florida. with the democrats locked in an increasingly fierce fight secretary clinton faced one of the sharpest exchanges yet about the fbi investigation into her private e-mail server. >> if you get incited buh drop out? >> oh, more goodness -- that is not going to happen. i'm not even answering that question. >> trying to get on offense clinton again took aim at senator sanders for opposing the auto bailout by saved millions of jobs. >> if everyone had vote the as he voted we would not have rescued the auto industry. >> it was the wall street bailout. >> clinton used the strategy heading into the michigan primary but still lost in a stunning upset to sanders. now she's hoping the attack will help her win states like ohio and illinois where sanders is

looking increasingly competitive. >> i will match my record against yours any day of the week. >> the candidates also sparred over immigration. >> you're telling us tonight that if you become president you won't deport children who are already here? >> i will not. >> let me just say this i don't think that the secretary fully answered your question. and i think the proof may be in the pudding. >> and while both candidates took sharp aim at donald trump, they deflected a question about whether he is a racist. >> i think it's unamerican, i think what he has promoted is not at all in keeping with american values. >> i think that the american people are never going to elect a president who insults mexicans, who insults muslims. >> and clinton flashed a rare moment of candor when asked why so many voters say they don't trust her. >> i am not a natural politician, in case you haven't noticed it, like my husband or

president obama. so i have a view that i just have to do the best i can. >> sanders still has a very steep climb. in order to clinch the nomination he would need to win 60% of the delegates moving forward but he's still got a lot of momentum and a lot of money in his war chest. steve. all right. kristen welker down in miami. thank you for that. we're going to take you back to the white house now as we said the president and canadian jim justin trudeau meeting her today and here is the president speaking. we will take that for a few minutes. >> -- there are some things we will probably never agree on. his love of hockey. >> don't get me started. >> where is the stanley cup

right now? i'm sorry, is it in my hometown with the chicago blackhawks? in case you were wondering. in case you canadians were wondering, where is it? >> and this visit is special for another reason, nearly 40 years ago on another march morning another american president welcomed another canadian prime minister here to the white house. that day prime minister pierre trudeau said that the united states is canada's best friend and ally and one of the reasons he said is that we have a common outlook on the world. today prime minister justin trudeau carries on this work. as prime minister your election and the first few months in office have brought a new energy and dynamism not only to canada

but to our nations. we have a common outlook on the world and i have to say i have never seen so many americans excited about the visit of a canadian prime minister. [ applause ] >> so with this visit i believe that the united states and canada can do even more together, even more to promote the trade and economic partnerships that provide good jobs and opportunities for our people, even more to ensure the security that so many americans and canadians count on so that they can live in safety and freedom, even more to protect our countries and our communities, especially in the arctic from climate change, just as we acted together at paris to reach the most ambitious agreement in history to fight climate change. [ applause ] >> and guided by our values. we can do even more together to advance human development around the world. from saving a child from a

preventable disease to giving a student in africa electricity to study by because as americans and canadians, we believe in the inherent dignity of every human being. as always our work as nations remains rooted in the friendship between our people's and we see that every day in communities along our shared border, up in hyder, alaska, folks head across the border to celebrate canada and folks in british columbia come over for the 4th of july. at the baseball diamond in alberta if you hit a home run there is a good chance the ball will land in montana. and up where vermont meets quebec americans and canadians come together at the local library where the borderline literally runs right across the floor. a resident of one of these border towns once said we're two different countries but we are

like one big town and people are always there for you. prime minister trudeau, justin, sophie, to all our can dee friends, we are two different countries but days like this remind us that we are like one big town and we reaffirm that americans and canadians will always be there for each other. welcome to the united states. mr. president, first lady, distinguished guests, friends, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for this extraordinary welcome. thank you so much for inviting sophie and me and through us all of canada to join with us on this spectacular morning. thank you very much. sophie and i along with our entire delegation, are honored

and touched by your magnificent hospitality and by the reinforcement of just how powerful you are, mr. president, to organize such a perfect day for us. [ speaking foreign language ] >> all right. the president and the canadian prime minister justin trudeau. we are going to keep an eye on that, but we're going to get back to the democratic race. we were just talk being that big debate last night, hillary clinton squaring off with bernie sanders, now going to talk more about that race. jackie kucinich from the daily beast is back with us, we are in columbus, she is in washington but she is from columbus originally. let's talk about where this democratic race stands right now, a huge victory for bernie sanders in michigan this week, a huge upset, one that nobody saw coming, but next tuesday five dates, five big states on the

board, could keep that momentum going and to actually have a chance of winning the nomination. what does bernie sanders need to do next? >> he has been focusing on states like ohio, illinois, missouri, but it was interesting the clinton campaign had a conference call yesterday and one of the things they said was even if bernie sanders mansion to win all three of those states he still might not watch up to hillary clinton with delegates. they are doing -- the hillary clinton campaign is polling very well in north carolina and florida and what their campaign says is because of her delegate lead, because of her lead in some of these other states she has a way to the nomination and bernie sanders just doesn't. >> and you also, jackie, you know this state really well, here in ohio in particular there was a poll yesterday that had the margin at 9 points, hillary clinton 52, bernie sanders 43. what is your sense of ohio and the chances of bernie sanders catching her here? >> it is not an impossibility that bernie sanders could catch

her in ohio. ohio has less african-americans than michigan does which tends to be a very strong point for hillary clinton. it also has been affected by trade and hillary clinton did support nafta, even though her it was her husband's administration, she has supported other trade deals which in certain parts of ohio won't endear her to that base. there's also a lot of college towns in ohio and now there is a fight right now because ohio's secretary of state isn't letting 17 year olds vote which bernie sanders has been making a big deal about that and is standing up for them in ohio. so it really is anyone's game right now. i would not be surprised to see that her lead right now narrow in the final days. >> all right. jackie kucinich with the daily beast. thanks for that. back now to the republican side and perhaps the end of the line or the beginning of a new chapter to come. it's going to be determined by what happens here in ohio next week for governor john kasich. he is staking his electability argument on the assertion that he can win this state next week.

in a new poll last night from fox news showing kasich moving into first place here in ohio, now just five days before the primary. 34% of buckeye z saying they would govern her governor five points ahead of donald trump, also well ahead of ted cruz and marco rubio. donald trump and ted cruz both saying they are hoping for a one on one match up to come next wednesday morning, but what would a john kasich ohio win mean for this race? let's bring in trent duffy, he is a national spokesman for the kasich campaign he joins us now. trent, let's take it from next wednesday morning. we know you guys need to win here in ohio next tuesday, let's say that happens, let's say john kasich wins ohio, he gets all 66 delegates, where does this race stand next wednesday morning? >> well, it's sunny down here in miami and it's a sunny day for the kasich campaign. that who will that you mentioned does show that john kasich has real momentum going into ohio and donald trump is falling. so the more people see and get to hear john kasich's message

and the fact that he has created the kinds of conditions that can get america moving again in terms of job creation, balancing the books, reforming government and getting real results will continue to see his upward climb. going forward what we're energized about is this new nbc "wall street journal" poll that shows john kasich basically in a three-way tie for the states yet to go, those are the states that we go to after we begin on march 15th in the state of ohio and likely if it looks the way it looks now that senator rubio would have to suspend his campaign. so that's what we're looking at, we feel very good about where we are, we expect to continue to get more support going forward. >> yeah, i mean, that last point you just said is interesting because we hear ted cruz, for instance, the people supporting ted cruz, they are all basically looking at marco rubio and saying, you need to get out of this race, you need to get out of this race now. for your strategy, for john kasich to win the nomination does that same thing apply, do you need rubio to get out of the

way? >> well, look, steve, i think the longer this race is splint erred the more it helps donald trump. everybody knows that. as we saw in michigan, 43% of late deciders in the state of michigan voted for john kasich and that was just one week ago after his debate performance and victory where he distinguished himself as the only true leader that's ready to move our country forward. we think that should senator rubio drop out of the race, which appears likely because he is anywhere between 16 to 20 points down here in florida, that we're going to see a lot of support coming to governor kasich because he is not only the one best prepared to win the nomination but he still is far and away the best candidate to take on and defeat hillary clinton in november. ohio is always a bellwether state and it's going to be this time around and that's why we're talking about its importance once again. >> but of course if we play this thing out, if john kasich starts winning states in ohio, then after the 15th if ted cruz still

has his states, if donald trump still is getting his delegates, if we get to the scenario that that would likely lead us to and that would be nobody has had a majority of delegates going into the convention it's the open convention, if we get there but donald trump goes in with the most delegates, which is what it looks like it would be, would it be possible for you or for cruz or anybody else to take the nomination from him without him basically walking away from the republican party and taking his supporters with him? >> well, steve, that's a long way away, there is a lot of road to go before we get to that point. but the fact of the matter is that the majority of republican voters are still not voting for mr. trump. so if that scenario were to play itself out the voters would have a chance, the delegates would have a chance to express their desire for a candidate other than donald trump. he would not have the majority of the vote so you could make a pretty strong argument that the voters are talking. that's a long way away.

what's most important right now is john kasich is going to be fired up to have another great debate performance tonight so he can talk about not only his record but his vision of bringing america together, working across party lines to get our country moving again and we feel that that coupled with this other momentum that we see in polls is going to propel us forward. >> all right. trent duffy with the kasich campaign, thanks for joining us. a bit of news, a bit of news that the locals here in columbus might care particularly about. this was just reported in the last minute by reed epstein and it was confirmed by john kasich himself that the football coach at ohio state university urban meyer has now endorsed john kasich for president. urban meyer who won the national championship with ohio state in 2014, a revered figure by ohio state football fans lining up behind kasich in advance of that primary next tuesday. that could be big. also by the way you are ban meyer won a national championship with the university of florida and tim tee bow not

that go ago and florida holding its vote next tuesday so this could be a two-fer for kasich. in a football crazed state like ohio that could be a big deal. anyway, tomorrow night on msnbc john kasich will be holding a town hall, willie geist is going to be hosting it, he will be taking questions, it's going to start at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you are not going to want to miss that. coming up here after a quick break we will head out about two hours northeast of here to euclid, ohio, our own jacob soboroff is going to join me with a story of an area shut down and jobs lost. >> how many people work here? >> we had over 200 at one time. >> and how many are losing their jobs? >> about 170 people are losing their jobs. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves?

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jacob, you have been speaking with some people there. what are they telling you? >> reporter: steve, when you come to a place like euclid manufacturing is absolutely critical to a community like this, especially a restaurant like this, adam's restaurant. during the great recession they lost about 165,000 manufacturing jobs in ohio and this state is the third largest manufacturing state in the union. they have only added about 50,000 of those jobs back during john kasich's tenure as governor here. i talked to one man who is losing his job next month, he is experiencing all of this firsthand. >> this big empty lot used to be a business called lake shore chevrolet. >> we're talking a long time ago. >> just recently. probably closed down within the last three to four years. >> seeing something like this happen unusual for in area. >> >> no. >> and this is your neighborhood. >> this is my neighborhood. >> at one point the houses in this neighborhood went for how much? >> about 145. >> $145,000. >> $145,000.

>> and what do you say they are worth now? >> my house recently appraised and several others in this neighborhood for $50,000 to $52,000. >> here is your house. >> yes. >> do you mind if we go take a look at where you work? >> no, let's take a ride. as you can tell a lot of the storefronts are temp ee. >> right. >> it's because of the local economy in this area. ice cream shops that are closed. >> closed. >> closed. closed. >> wow. >> and so what's going on over at cleveland range? >> we're closing. >> and now they're just closing it, moving it to canada? >> moving to canada. american work force going to canada. >> how many people work here? >> we had over 200 at one time. >> and how many are losing their jobs? >> about 170 people are losing their jobs. >> whoa. so out of the 200, almost everybody. >> almost everyone will be gone.

almost everyone will be gone. >> how do you stop this from happening? >> that's the million dollar question. >> uh-huh. >> we as americans need to get out and cast a vote to bring the jobs back to america, but that's going to start at our local voting booths. >> can i tell you something? >> yes. >> that kind of sounds like donald trump. >> donald trump is a billionaire businessman. >> a year from now -- >> yes. >> -- what's this place going to look like? >> closed, desolate, boarded up. >> steve, this is bonnie, she has worked here for 38 years at adam's, bonnie, you said that with cleveland range closing your deliveries and orders have been done. >> they've been done but we got a lot of business with their takeout orders. >> right now it's not as much takeoff. >> we're still doing good at takeouts. >> who are people looking at for

donald trump. i heard one guy saying trump. >> there are a lot of them are trump, a lot of them are talk being trump. >> and what about kasich? >> kasich wouldn't be bad. >> you heard from from bonnie, business is down, steve, it's all about manufacturing here. back to you. >> all right. jacob soboroff in euclid, ohio, good report. thanks for that. after the break i am going to talk to u.s. senator for ohio -- one of the u.s. senators for ohio, he is supporting hillary clinton here in his home state. we will talk to him right after the break.

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it's hard to tell a guy from ohio to compare ohio and michigan too closely here, but there are a lot of similar anxieties that voters in ohio and michigan share. and when you look at what happened in michigan this week, that upset win for bernie sanders there, is there a concern, as a supporter of hillary clinton, that he's going to tap into similar anxieties here and maybe win this state as well? >> well, there's anxieties everywhere in the country. there's anxieties in the south where hillary did very, very well and anxieties in your story from euclid, ohio. my wife and i live in cleveland. that area had more foreclosures in 2007 than any other zip code in the united states. the gentleman that you were talking to, that auto worker, i think he was uaw, he represents a lot of people that have lost jobs. we've seen, since the auto rescue, economic growth 71 months in a row.

but it's not nearly enough. people are deservedly upset. i think you're going to see a better trade policy coming out of the clinton administration and see more attention paid to manufacturing because that's what our state is about. with wealth, you either create it, grow it or mine it and ohio is good at all three. >> you mentioned the auto rescue. that became an issue with hillary clinton trying to pin that vote against taking the t.a.r.t. money and using it for the auto rescue. bernie sanders had voted against that in '09. he says that doesn't mean i was against the auto bailout. hillary clinton tried to pin that on him in michigan. he won michigan anyway. does that mean that that line of attack backfired on her? >> i don't think it backfired. i think voters understand in voting in ohio that bernie and hillary are in the same place. they have different rhetoric but have the same tone about what to

do about companies moving overseas, what to do about trade, what to do about corporate taxes. i'm working on legislation now for these companies that do inversions, that you pay before you leave. i mean, you pay before you go. and what you owe. and that's -- i think that's become the democratic mainstream. and i have opposed trade agreements since my first year in the house against nafta and pntr and korea and this most recent. hillary's in the right place in those issues and so is bernie and i think we have finally seen politicians of this country notice cruz and trump on this, too, have caught up with what the public thinks about these trade agreements, in fact, have betrayed americans and small businesses. >> senator sherrod brown, thank you for joining us. >> thanks, steve. we'll be right back.

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where the freedom tower is where thousands of cuban exiles were processed into the united states in the '60s when they left that island seeking freedom. in a couple of hours and a couple of miles from where i am this morning, the four remaining republican candidates will duke it out on their 12th primary debate. it is the last debate ahead of tuesday's potentially game-changing contests in five states. and anti-trump forces are looking to ohio and florida as the best places to stop the front-runner. a new ohio poll from fox news puts john kasich ahead of donald trump by five points. the two other polls released earlier on wednesday showed trump ahead by six here in florida. the polls are more consistent. the future looks, well, dire for marco rubio, the state's freshman senator facing a 23-point deficit against the billionaire businessman. delegates from florida and ohio

are win or take all for the gop making them even more crucial. at our msnbc town hall with rubio last night, he admitted his campaign will come down to florida. >> even if i had done really well in all of these previous states, if i had not done well in florida, it would be trouble for our campaign. so we need to win here. that's our priority. we're going to win. we feel really good about it. >> democrats here in florida also vote on tuesday and while the gop candidates prepare for their debate tonight, hillary clinton and bernie sanders faced off last night here in miami in what was arguably their testiest argument to date. >> i said welcome those children into this country. secretary clinton said send them back. that's a difference. >> i do not want to deport children or family members either. >> i happen to agree with president obama on many, many

issues. i think he's done a great job in the united states. he's wrong on this issue of deportation. >> in 2006, senator sanders supported indefinite detention for people facing deportation. >> what the secretary is doing tonight and has done very often is take large pieces of legislation and take pieces out of it. >> you don't make america great by getting rid of everything that made america great. >> in the last national that i saw, we were running 18 points ahead of donald trump. >> if you get indicted, would you drop out? >> i'm not even going to answer. >> and we'll have more on the democratic contest in a moment but first let's go to our team of correspondents covering the republican candidates across florida. let's start with hallie jackson and peter alexander.

peter, as we head into this debate, there's another controversy surrounding trump and muslims. >> reporter: yeah, this is certainly not the first for donald trump. this came as a result of the conversation on cnn last night when asked specifically about islam and the war on isis. take a listen to the words that have donald trump back in the center of controversy. >> do you think islam is at war with the west? >> i think islam hates us. there's something -- there's something there -- there's a tremendous hatred there. there's a tremendous hatred. we have to get to the bottom of it. there's an unbelievable hatred of us. >> in islam itself? >> you're going to have to figure that out, okay? you'll get another pulitzer but you're going to have to figure that out. there's a tremendous hatred and we have to be very careful and

can't allow people running into this country who have hatred of the united states. >> it's the kind of language that has resonated with donald trump and we've heard consistently from his supporters that they believe there's some form of a hatred specifically from radical islamic jihadists over towards americans but one that many people criticize, insisting that it's the very divisiveness that is making his campaign so controversial to this point. he'll be pressed on that topic tonight and a variety of other ones in what is certain to be another exciting debate. whether it's tepid, the fighting that we've seen in past debates, that remains to be seen. marco rubio has ak noblged he wishes he hadn't gone after donald trump the way that he has. jose? >> absolutely. he said that last night with chuck todd on msnbc. now, hallie, since the last debate, senator cruz has picked up the endorsement of kf bbut i

doesn't look very favorable to his campaign, do they? >> reporter: well, some states look more favorable than others for ted cruz. a place like ohio is not a place that ted cruz would traditionally do well and that's why you won't see him compete vigorously in that state or put a ton of resources into ohio. illinois is somewhat similar. while you may see the senator spend time there and put money into that state, north carolina is the one to watch and so is missouri. that's where the campaign believes that they can be strong and have some success. you look at a place like here in florida. jose, we talk about it again and again but this is a critical state for marco rubio which makes it a very interesting state for somebody like ted cruz. if his campaign can try to make sure that rubio doesn't succeed in winning the home state, the

state of florida, will be the republican nominee. so rubio putting the expectation out there that he will either do well or essentially move on. so we'll see how this shakes out over the next five days. it's a key moment of the campaign. >> no doubt, hallie, that cruz is very adamant, if he didn't win the state of texas he wouldn't have probably gone forward. but he didn't say that until after he won the state. >> reporter: yeah, he certainly telegraphed it. but yeah. >> so hallie, when we talk about this anti-trump movement, the other part of that is somebody has to take his place. ready for that person to be senator cruz? >> reporter: i mean, that's the million dollar question. i think you're seeing some inside the beltway and the washington establishment begrudgingly almost accept that it could be ted cruz and start to give him a little bit of

momentum, at least maybe send up some flares with what you're seeing from lindsey graham and mitt romney sort of talking about the idea that it could be cruz as the anti-trump alternative. the issue, jose, is that there's not an alternative. there's not an alternative candidate that the anti-trump folks have managed to come behind and prop up, basically, which is why you're seeing this divided field. cruz himself has talked about the divided field being problematic for trying to take donald trump down. remarks that he's made again and again in recent days, the idea that you're splitting up the vote among multiple candidates allows trump to pick up steam and continue to have the 45, 42% of the republican support. >> right. >> reporter: the question now, will trump seal and go up? can cruz coalesce that support? will marco rubio do something that shifts his momentum? that would be tough to imagine giving where we are in polling.

big deal for buckeye folks. he could be kind of the spoiler here in all of this. >> yeah. let's see what happens on that. hallie jackson and peter alexander, thank you for being with me this morning. let me bring in gabe gutierrez who is covering the rubio campaign. good to see you. >> good to see you, jose. >> so the debate tonight is in rubio's backyard. he got his law degree there. he hasn't been getting a lot of traction. >> the latest fox poll has him down 23 points in his home state. the rubio campaign could not have imagined that they would be in this position. yesterday in hailea, it's just an estimate of the enthusiasm here in the state. >> size doesn't matter. >> well, you bring up the low-brow humor that marco rubio employed in taking down donald

trump and yesterday at the town hall he had a very revealing answer when chuck asked him about that. it was a question from the audience. somebody asked him, you know, how could he square his religious principles with going after donald trump in that manner. let's listen to what he had to say. >> in terms of stuff that have to deal with personal stuff, yeah, that's not something i'm entirely proud of. my kids were embarrassed by it and if i had to do it again, i wouldn't. but not on the other charges. not on the other things. when it comes to the fact that he's portraying himself as something that he has not, this sometime the stakes are not the greatest nation on earth. >> so today expect more -- or tonight at the debate, expect more attacks on donald trump but more on policy, not so much on the personal insults. before that houston debate when he first started going after donald trump, everybody was sayings, you've got to go after donald trump. >> on policy. >> yeah. it went well. he got good reviews for that

debate and the next day at his rally in dallas, he started going after the spray tan and talking about donald trump's hair and over the next couple of days, a lot of his supporters, that went against his brand and that may have been one of the reasons that the campaign started in the downward trajectory. the question now will be, can he recover from that? can he gain some momentum? right now it's a steep hill to climb. >> thank you, jose. we talked earlier about donald trump's statement last night that he believes islam hates americans and the united states. this morning on "morning joe," florida republican rick scott says he's not making an endorsement before tuesday's primary couldn't answer if he agreed with the gop front-runner on that. >> do you personally think that islam as a religion hates america? >> so, joe, what i can tell you in our state is we have a lot of

muslims that live in our state. a lot of americans live in our state. we all get along. we love people moving to our state and coming here as tourists. we're a great melting pot. that's what i can tell you about our state. >> donald trump -- >> okay. >> -- can talk about the things he wants and john kasich and ted cruz. >> no. no. huh-uh. that's not answering any questions. rick, rick, rick -- i know you and joe are friends and this is kind of awkward but can you answer the question or should we scoot? >> well, i can tell you that, you know, i'm glad everybody's in florida. we're doing well here. the debate is going to be fun tonight. i hope they talk about jobs. it's the most important issue. >> governor rick scott, thanks for being on. we will move on now. thanks. >> okay. well, with me now, political

analyst ben guzman. thanks for being here. let's talk about a nonanswer from the governor of florida about this. people going on a television program to talk about issues and you have the thoughts going through your mind trying to weigh all of the political calibrations if you're a political figure so he decided to dodge the question. i believe in that. >> you do? let's talk about rubio. he's got a debate tonight. how important is it for him to try and change the discussion when very little of the discussion has to do with rubio growing? >> he hasn't had the opportunity in the past few debates to talk about his vision for the country and the policies he'd like to see the country adopt.

this is sort of in a lot of ways his last chance to do that. it's a big moment for him and a big opportunity. >> yesterday he spoke with chuck todd on msnbc, that town hall. he had the town hall in spanish also for telemundo. is it too late for him to reintroduce him to voters that have known him for years? >> well, they have known him for years so i think what he's trying to do is rekindle the romance, to make them remember why they fell in love with him in 2010, which he certainly has the skills, testimomperament an background to do. >> what does he have to do tonight? >> he has to show that he has the most productive vision for the future of the country and that he's the one that can spell out the particular policies to get us to the goals that we want to reach. >> if he doesn't get florida next tuesday, what do you think. >> i don't think he has much of a chance. i think it's due or die for him.

>> the numbers are not looking good for him. >> the numbers looked tough for bernie sanders in michigan and i think they are looking for a similar lack of polling accuracy. >> well, there's also the issue, you know, he was the underdog in a lot of contests and he came back. >> thanks for having me here. coming up in downtown miami, here in the sunshine state, you can still feel the heat from last night's democratic debate. there was some intense moments. hillary clinton and bernie sanders getting feisty before the next contest. the battle points centered on immigration. that is why it's so hard to have latino-focused debates, among other ones, because these issues were finally brought up. we're going to talk about that next.

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hillary clinton and bernie sanders are fighting for the latino vote here and sparks flew last night during the debate. >> in 2006, senator sanders supported indefinite detention for people facing deportation and stood with the minutemen vigilantes in their efforts to hunt down immigrants. >> no, i do not support vigilantes and that's an unfair statement to make. i have fought for workers,

fighting for the poorest people in this country. madam secretary, i will match my record against yours any day of the week. >> that was political reporter alex seitz-wall joining me cleveland, ohio. >> both of these candidates looking ahead to florida where we have 1.8 million hispanic in the state, about 15% of the democratic electorate. so far in the race, about 10% of the electorate has been hispanic, mostly in colorado and texas. clinton has done well there, mostly two-thirds going for her. but both of these candidates made very big promises on immigration. now they are promising not to deport undocumented children and adults who don't have criminal

records. and there's a risk that could come back to bite them if either are lucky enough to make it to the white house if they seem to be overpromising the way that president obama has and they both said they don't agree with president obama's deportation policy. >> hillary clinton finally said that, yes, within the first 100 days, if she became president, immigration reform would be introduced in capitol hill. but it seems as though they both went further than they probably expected to go as far as what you just said, as far as the deportation of children or even undocumented parents of undocumented children. >> jorge pushed to come out and have him say that they would deport undocumented children or

parents. that's going to be something brought back up in the general election and by groups who want to see action on that and they don't deliver on that promise. >> alex seitz-wald, thanks for being with me. good to see you. last night, bernie sanders' words came back to haunt him when he talked about leaders like the castro brothers in cuba. take a listen to some of that. >> in 1985, you criticized the sandanista government and this is what you said about fidel castro. listen. >> way back in 1961, they invaded cuba and everybody was totally convinced that castro was the worst guy in the world. all of the cuban people are going to rise up against castro. >> have you ever regretted the

characterization of fidel castro that you made in 1985? >> the key issue here was whether the united states should go around overthrowing small latin-american countries. >> you didn't answer the question. >> both in nick war gra and cuba. let's look at the facts. cuba is an authoritarian, undemocratic country and i hope it become as democratic country. >> this is the press secretary for the bernie sanders campaign. great to see you. during the msnbc town hall that we had last month with the two candidates in las vegas, i asked bernie sanders definition of what he believes democratic socialism is and how it's different than venezuela or cuba. and you know that there are some in this community, in south

florida, that hear those words, revolution and socialism and think of tyranny and dictatorship. >> absolutely. he has not supported if i had dal castro. his main purpose is to make sure that we have a democracy that we have in the united states. what does that mean? that the people are actually governing our country and it's not the 1% or corporations. he's not talking about socialists, specifically or dictatorship. he's talking about the fact that the country has been run by the millionaires and the corporations. we need to give the power back to the people, that you have universal health care and education for everybody. they need to have the opportunity to be educated. so that is what he's talking about. >> and secretary clinton, that's

something she had not been willing to do until we pressed her last month in vegas. how is bernie sanders different? is his proposal written, clear, concise, is it actually real? >> we actually have a detailed plan. she doesn't. if you go into her plan, there's no details whether she's going to bring the deported back. yesterday we heard the story of a woman, a mother whose husband was deported and his kids were here. >> there are tens and thousands of families in this country. >> deported by the administration that we have right now. unfortunately, o unfortunately. and our plan details what we will do. >> people can apply for something, go through a process where they can ask the government to allow them to come back. they were unjustly deported. there's no reason to have deported those folks and they can come back. hillary says nothing about it. the other thing we've talked

about is tps. when the rates were happening, bernie sanders sent a letter to the president and said let's do tps. >> let's talk about that because we can talk about this and people will say what are they talking about? it's a temporary protection service, which other countries have been having because of earthquakes and other problems and what the sanders campaign is saying, get those kids to have that temporary status until what? >> sole what we want to do is this. instead of saying we need to deport children, we need to just give them legal -- of course, we need legal services for them. we need the opportunity to represent or have somebody represent them in court. but what else can we do for them? make sure that central america, all of the three countries can have, again, an opportunity to apply for protective status. right? they can actually apply for something in a case-by-case

basis. there's nothing in hillary's proposal. we want to know what it is. >> always a pleasure to see you. coming up, a very high stakes for governor kasich who needs to beat donald trump in his home state since he's now the front-runner in florida. plus, what these two huge win or take all states mean for the convention in july. also, we live where everybody wants to hang out and vacation but we're not that sorry about it. we got another one. i have an orc-o-gram for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪

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ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. big endorsements for governor john kasich in his home state. the top three newspapers in the state now endorsing him as a republican nominee. also, announcing his support

this morning, ohio state football coach urban meyer. kasich is moving into first place five days before the primary. five points ahead of donald trump. msnbc's steve kornacki is in ohio. what does this race look like if kasich wins ohio? >> well, it's looking more and more critical, this state, ohio, to any republican out there who does not want donald trump to be the nominee, who wants to stop donald trump because down there in florida, you know this really well, the polls are looking grim for marco rubio. there is still time and a chance for rubio to pull it out there but right now it looks like very possible that marco rubio loses florida to donald trump and donald trump takes all 99 delegates to win or take all in florida. and that means trump cannot win ohio on the same day if republicans are going to stop him from winning the nomination. so if trump takes florida, kasich really needs ohio. the entire republican party

doesn't want donald trump they need kasich to win ohio. the good news is he is leading here right now. i'm also wondering and may be picking up a sense of this around here right now, there may be an instinct on the part of the republicans that even if they don't necessarily like kasich that much, even if he's not the top choice for president, they may be thinking strategically. look, if i want to stop donald trump, i have to do it by voting for john kasich in this state next week. so really, the more rubio starts to look like he's in trouble in florida, the more important ohio becomes. >> the stop trump campaign is going on and i think we'll win before the convention. the way i guarantee convict is

to get enough delegates so i don't have to worry about it. >> if you're fighting between the candidates that are earning votes between the people and it's the delegates at the convention that have been elected to do that, that's the way the system works. >> msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber has been digging through the republican rule book. good morning. you're writing about how brokered convention rules still favor trump? >> that's right, jose. this is some of the most fascinating stuff that could happen. there's a possibility that donald trump won't get the 50% of delegates and that means under the rules he's not officially the nominee and republicans, some in the establishment in washington, are saying, great, let's go to the convention. we can stop him there. not so fast. when you look at the rules in the rnc rule book, there are some that would favor the front-runner, which is donald trump. take rule 16. it locks in a candidates support from every delegate on the first

ballot. so if trump comes in with 45%, that means that's a floor. he won't drop below that on the first ballot and can add to it and potentially wrap things up on the first ballot. and rule 40 was written in 2012 as a temporary rule to help mitt romney and they say you need a majority of delegates in eight states. right now, nobody would have that to challenge trump. ted cruz might get there by the end. that would be on the first ballot. now, as with everything else in this wacky primary, the temporary rules don't have to be automatic. you could change them. but i spoke to some people for this article, including republican insiders who said if trump is close to 50%, there would be a revolt. that would be the idea that the contested convention would turn into basically the whole party. it's interesting in the rules that the republicans think they

want to stop trump at this point could actually help him. >> it is indeed crazy, ari. thank you very much. good seeing you. >> you bet. we're live from bayside in miami. the final faceoff before the critical primary vote in florida and ohio. wait until you hear which candidate is reportedly promising a friendlier debate tone here in miami. we're also live in another southern battleground state. we'll check in with nascar fans to see what is driving them to the poll on tuesday. >> we need to change and it's finally time we get away from the politicians and donald trump. americans. we're living longer than ever.

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today - at business.ny.gov and we are back from the bayside marketplace in miami after minor technical difficulties. we are back live on a beautiful, sunny day here. a big day for the republicans as they are going to be holding that debate here at the university of miami. it's the final debate before next tuesday's critical primaries here in florida and in ohio. both marco rubio and john kasich admitting losses in their home states, could really be tragic and maybe even fatal for their

campaigns. republican front-runner donald trump, however, says he expects the tone of tonight's debate to be different from the ones in the past. >> i believe it's going to be a softer debate. i hope it's going to be a softer debate. i can tell you that i go in much more as a uniter. i think it will be a nicer, softer, lighter debate, i hope. >> francesca chambers is joining me. great to see you. >> so wonderful to be here. >> the last time these people had a debate together, it wasn't actually roberts rules of discourse. >> the wild west of politics is what i called it today. marco rubio and donald trump were talking about their manhood. marco rubio saying last night that that wasn't his finest moment. i don't expect that tonight.

>> when you start talking about the size of hands, start getting kind of weird. so this is rubio's home turf. clearly, this is probably the last opportunity he's going to have to reach a very wide audience to get his message out. how important is it for him? >> i mean, this is due or die for marco rubio. as you know, florida is a win-or-take-all state. he needs to win in order to get the 99 delegates. he wouldn't be anywhere close to where donald trump and ted cruz where. he was 300 delegates behind both of them. >> but would it change the discussion? would it be -- you know, i talked with the senator yesterday in spanish

for telemundo. what is the way forward? he says, if i win florida, it's a new discussion that we would be having. >> it would absolutely inject much-needed momentum into his campaign. if he doesn't win here, he doesn't have a path forward, if you lose your home state. it's not good for your candidacy. marco rubio has to do very well in tonight's debate as well. that could be a big difference on tuesday when voters vote. >> it looks like there's momentum for john kasich in ohio. how important is tonight for kasich? >> the strategy seems to be working for him. sort of stand off to the other side of the stage and let those three have at it and then keep injecting himself and say i would like to talk about policy right now and so it seems that if john kasich continues to

follow that strategy and wins ohio on tuesday as well and takes those delegates, he might find a way to stay in this race until the convention. >> and senator cruz is making a play for florida now saying he's the only guy that could actually take on trump and beat him. listen to what he has to say. let's take a look. >> the more this gets down to a two-man race, the more decisively we win. donald wants the other candidates to remain in the race because it splinters his opposition. when the opposition unifies, donald loses. >> so what does cruz have to do? >> well, ted cruz tonight needs to maybe convince them that if they don't win ohio and florida, that they need to get out of the race. that's the only way that he would be able to have enough delegates to overtake donald trump. however, though, it doesn't necessarily hurt him. if marco rubio were able to pull

it off, he could keep trump from getting all 99 of those delegates and help ted cruz. >> especially if we're talking if marco rubio would win florida where the polls say there's a high probability of that and john kasich wins ohio, things would change there as well, right? >> it also runs a risk there, that they would continue to splinter the delegates and make it difficult for ted cruz to win this race. >> so what would a new and improved donald trump on the debate stage look like, do you think, francesca? >> when donald trump was hit aggressively over trump university, he took a step back and said let rubio go after him and let rubio hit him over and over again. that's what you can expect tonight. a hands-off approach and say, well, i'm beating you in florida by a large margin. i don't need to do anything here

tonight. >> hands-off approach, not including the size of the hands. >> no pun intended. >> you didn't do that, did you? there's no pun in there. great seeing you. thanks for being with me. speaking of donald trump, he's planning a rally in st. louis ahead of the state's republican primary on tuesday. but in a region still reeling from the racial tensions that erupted in 2014, surrounding the death of unarmed black teen michael brown, not everyone is thrilled about the candidate's visit. we're live in ferguson next right here on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. and i quit smoking with i'm chantix.

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. and we continue to msnbc steve kornacki in columbus, ohio. i want to get your thoughts on last night's democratic debate in florida. my colleagues from univision, i thought, had a very good, very

well-moderated debate. do you think it will change the needle for any of them, hillary clinton or bernie sanders? >> yeah. i agree with you, these democratic debates have been something to watch. the exchanges that you have between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, they are sharp and lively. we certainly saw that on immigration last night. in terms of changing minds, though, i'm not so sure. i wonder sometimes if encounters like you had last night end up reinforcing the people who are with sanders feel even more strongly. the people with clinton even more strongly that they want to be with clinton. if that's the net result of the debate last night, the net result of the campaigning that we're seeing, then that is an advantage for hillary clinton. i know what bernie sanders just pulled off in michigan. that's a huge upset. nobody saw that coming. the polls didn't have that happening at all. it's an important win. we've also talked about the delegate reality. if you're bernie sanders, you actually want to win the democratic nomination and be the democratic candidate for

president, you have got to catch her in that pledged delegate count and even while winning michigan this week, even while winning hillary clinton there, bernie sanders got initishellac. he fell further behind and he's more than 200 pledged delegates behind her. and again, we're starting to look ahead to next week. you're down there in florida and that's one of the big five states for next tuesday. i'm looking at that map and saying, look, if sanders really gets hot here, maybe he could pull out a win. look at a state like florida, one thing that is key about florida on the democratic side, it's a closed primary. democrats only. we've seen bernie sanders and his advantage in michigan, i think what put him over the top in michigan was that independents were allowed to vote and those that came in the primary in michigan were overwhelmingly for bernie sanders. he may not have that buffer in some other states going forward. again, i look to next tuesday and say, he can still have a

good night and pull off maybe an upset in ohio. maybe there's another upset on that map for him. i don't know. illinois, you look at another industrial midwest state. illinois the state that hillary clinton is from and it's the place of roberto. i don't know if there's an advantage for her in that. if he's still not in the delegate lead, this thing is going to go on for a while. he absolutely is going to take the convention and win stakes but the question for bernie sanders is, can he start winning big? and i mean big here in states he's not supposed to win in because that's the only way he's going to chip away at that delegate mark. and it's not just putting wins on the mark. he's got to win big to erase that delegate gap. that's a tall order in the democratic race. >> steve kornacki in ohio, thank you very much. it's great seeing you, you my friend.

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we are waiting for president obama to hold a news conference later this hour with canadian prime minister justin trudeau. the obamas welcomed the prime minister and his family for an official visit that include as state dinner. now, prime minister trudeau has weighed into the presidential race taking aim at donald trump saying recently he stands firmly against, quote, the politics of fear, the politics of empowerment or hateful rhetoric. and right now we are waiting for bernie sanders to hold a rally at the university of florida. it's a first of three rallies that the senator will hold today in florida. of course, you know by now, the biggest prize when five states hold delegate-rich primaries next tuesday. former secretary of state hillary clinton will hold a rally in the next hour in tampa. and the latest polls show

clinton has at least a 27-point lead in florida. but after senator sanders' surprise win in michigan, the two are locked in an increasingly tight race. as was evidenced in their latest battle last night, they battled over immigration reform, health care and, yes, even cuba. secretary clinton was also pressed on the issue of her private e-mail server. >> that is not going to happen. i'm not even going to answer that. >> and back on the republican side, the gop candidates square off in their 12th debate. it goes down tonight in miami. it comes with the latest polls showing donald trump now with a 23-point lead over senator marco rubio but the latest polls in ohio shows governor john kasich with a five-point lead over trum